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	<title>Comments on: Patriotic Expression and Visionary Cheerleading</title>
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	<description>... about faith, politics, and whatever else comes to mind</description>
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		<title>By: beauspeaks</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>beauspeaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Truth or Truths?  Well, yes, today that is how it&#039;s phrased.  An older way might be, Truth or opinions (which can be true or false).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth or Truths?  Well, yes, today that is how it&#8217;s phrased.  An older way might be, Truth or opinions (which can be true or false).</p>
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		<title>By: Gwynne</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Truth or Truths, that is the question. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth or Truths, that is the question. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: beauspeaks</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>beauspeaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Truth!  You want Truth!  You can&#039;t handle ... oh wait, never mind. What was I thinking?  :)

So you want God in this discussion of politics? Well it may prove impossible to keep Him out of it.  He&#039;s a big topic.  For now I&#039;ll talk about sweaters.  Later we might see something about Left and Right dividing about patriotism and God....  So for now see, Jimmy Carter Wore a Sweater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth!  You want Truth!  You can&#8217;t handle &#8230; oh wait, never mind. What was I thinking?  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So you want God in this discussion of politics? Well it may prove impossible to keep Him out of it.  He&#8217;s a big topic.  For now I&#8217;ll talk about sweaters.  Later we might see something about Left and Right dividing about patriotism and God&#8230;.  So for now see, Jimmy Carter Wore a Sweater.</p>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Dude,

I&#039;m waiting for the discussion on Truth, because how we see Truth defines our world view. I think that that is the problem with the Left. Or, that the difference between the religious right and the left is their ideas of what Truth is. I don&#039;t know much about politics. You tell me. Do I have it wrong? For example, my Truth says God exists and is the intelligence behind the design. The left says: God, no God, both can be true; my truth is different from you truth....Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m waiting for the discussion on Truth, because how we see Truth defines our world view. I think that that is the problem with the Left. Or, that the difference between the religious right and the left is their ideas of what Truth is. I don&#8217;t know much about politics. You tell me. Do I have it wrong? For example, my Truth says God exists and is the intelligence behind the design. The left says: God, no God, both can be true; my truth is different from you truth&#8230;.Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: beauspeaks</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>beauspeaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Wow! many comments.... can I keep up? I hope so, because I&#039;ve posting asking for more from the seven....

Hmmmm, Beth&#039;s and Sis&#039;s comments make me think that maybe I&#039;ll have to post on Truth.  The problem may be the truth about America. Or maybe about the Constitution.  

And Sis, with all the good things in the Soviet Constitution, who wouldn&#039;t like it?  The Russians are good at writing nice sounding constitutions.  I once heard a Russian student say the only problem with the current one was the fact that all the judges were corrupt....

Tim, hmmmm.  I patriotism in Iraq, hmmm.  Not my country right or wrong, but shia or sunni?

And is there a difference between best and best for me? for Iraqis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! many comments&#8230;. can I keep up? I hope so, because I&#8217;ve posting asking for more from the seven&#8230;.</p>
<p>Hmmmm, Beth&#8217;s and Sis&#8217;s comments make me think that maybe I&#8217;ll have to post on Truth.  The problem may be the truth about America. Or maybe about the Constitution.  </p>
<p>And Sis, with all the good things in the Soviet Constitution, who wouldn&#8217;t like it?  The Russians are good at writing nice sounding constitutions.  I once heard a Russian student say the only problem with the current one was the fact that all the judges were corrupt&#8230;.</p>
<p>Tim, hmmmm.  I patriotism in Iraq, hmmm.  Not my country right or wrong, but shia or sunni?</p>
<p>And is there a difference between best and best for me? for Iraqis?</p>
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		<title>By: jen</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Tim, I remember you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I remember you!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Beth, I like your comments and agree with them for the most part.  However, being patriotic doesn&#039;t necessarily mean you think your country is the best.  I think you can be patriotic about your country because you identify with the people and feel a personal connection with the country.  For example, I think few people in Iraq right now think it is the best country in the world, but I&#039;m sure there are more than those few who are patriotic.

As far as who I am... I&#039;ve been reading Lintefiniel Musings, back when it was known as Jen Speaks, for a few years; I just never said much over there.  I used to have the blog &#039;Be Quiet...so I can talk&#039;, but I ended that one a while ago and just started a new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beth, I like your comments and agree with them for the most part.  However, being patriotic doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean you think your country is the best.  I think you can be patriotic about your country because you identify with the people and feel a personal connection with the country.  For example, I think few people in Iraq right now think it is the best country in the world, but I&#8217;m sure there are more than those few who are patriotic.</p>
<p>As far as who I am&#8230; I&#8217;ve been reading Lintefiniel Musings, back when it was known as Jen Speaks, for a few years; I just never said much over there.  I used to have the blog &#8216;Be Quiet&#8230;so I can talk&#8217;, but I ended that one a while ago and just started a new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwynne</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-32</guid>
		<description>What great comments!  It seems your fundamental question here is, why does the Left have a problem with patriotism?

I&#039;m sure relativism, as Beth mentioned, is at the root.  By not accepting Truth as truth, it is difficult to uphold our core values (those of our Founding Fathers) as something worth fighting for without becoming embarrassed and ashamed, afraid of hurting someone&#039;s &lt;i&gt;feelings,&lt;/i&gt; afraid of being called...An American.  That&#039;s a dirty word in most of Europe and the Middle East.  

And &quot;feelings&quot; is also part of the problem because let&#039;s face it, many on the Left are more worried about protecting feelings than upholding the Truth.  They are embarrassed and ashamed to be Americans first, afraid to be viewed as imposing our Ways on others, afraid of being outted for not being tolerant, even of the intolerable.

As for patriots being called nationalists or worse, imperialists, this is just name calling in most instances, meant to disarm the opponent, nothing more.  To some, there is a fine line between &quot;love of country&quot; and &quot;love of country above all else, right or wrong, to the exlusion of all others.&quot;  To others, the difference is a huge chasm.  Perhaps if we didn&#039;t hide behind so many &quot;isms,&quot; it wouldn&#039;t be so easy to throw stones.

At least that&#039;s my opinion. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What great comments!  It seems your fundamental question here is, why does the Left have a problem with patriotism?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure relativism, as Beth mentioned, is at the root.  By not accepting Truth as truth, it is difficult to uphold our core values (those of our Founding Fathers) as something worth fighting for without becoming embarrassed and ashamed, afraid of hurting someone&#8217;s <i>feelings,</i> afraid of being called&#8230;An American.  That&#8217;s a dirty word in most of Europe and the Middle East.  </p>
<p>And &#8220;feelings&#8221; is also part of the problem because let&#8217;s face it, many on the Left are more worried about protecting feelings than upholding the Truth.  They are embarrassed and ashamed to be Americans first, afraid to be viewed as imposing our Ways on others, afraid of being outted for not being tolerant, even of the intolerable.</p>
<p>As for patriots being called nationalists or worse, imperialists, this is just name calling in most instances, meant to disarm the opponent, nothing more.  To some, there is a fine line between &#8220;love of country&#8221; and &#8220;love of country above all else, right or wrong, to the exlusion of all others.&#8221;  To others, the difference is a huge chasm.  Perhaps if we didn&#8217;t hide behind so many &#8220;isms,&#8221; it wouldn&#8217;t be so easy to throw stones.</p>
<p>At least that&#8217;s my opinion. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Beau's Sis</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Beau's Sis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-31</guid>
		<description>What I find fascinating about the idea of patriotism is how it is currently based on what people perceive the &quot;rights&quot; are of the American people.  The irony is that the &quot;rights&quot; currently talked about are not in the Constitution of the US of A.  They were, in fact, the &quot;rights&quot; of the citizens of the USSR in their Constitutions of 1936 and 1977.  Rights to: universal paid higher education, education taught in the native language, retirement benefits, maternity leave, daycare, **separation of church and state** (the US has the right &quot;of religion&quot; NOT &quot;separation of church and state&quot; ~ that is from the USSR).

And the newest fad here in the US that Beth discussed is also covered: &quot;Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited&quot;.  Oh, and this one is so timely now with global warming:  &quot;Citizens of the USSR are obliged to protect nature and conserve its riches.&quot;

Looking this over, and hearing what a certain Presidential candidate is promoting, it makes me wonder if I&#039;m still in the USA or have been quatum leaped to the USSR pre-1989.

The first needful thing to do would be to determine to which constitution one is patriotic.

Of course they also had &quot;Marriage is based on the free consent of the woman and the man&quot; so they weren&#039;t completely off-base! ;-)

I love how our Constitution does not demand patriotism, dutiful behavior, and obligations, unlike the old USSR.  A truly free people has the right to chose how they will demonstrate their patriotism or not demonstrate it.  (To wear the pin or not to wear the pin, that is the question)

A comparative read between the constitutions  of the USA and the USSR is an enlightening one.  Check it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find fascinating about the idea of patriotism is how it is currently based on what people perceive the &#8220;rights&#8221; are of the American people.  The irony is that the &#8220;rights&#8221; currently talked about are not in the Constitution of the US of A.  They were, in fact, the &#8220;rights&#8221; of the citizens of the USSR in their Constitutions of 1936 and 1977.  Rights to: universal paid higher education, education taught in the native language, retirement benefits, maternity leave, daycare, **separation of church and state** (the US has the right &#8220;of religion&#8221; NOT &#8220;separation of church and state&#8221; ~ that is from the USSR).</p>
<p>And the newest fad here in the US that Beth discussed is also covered: &#8220;Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited&#8221;.  Oh, and this one is so timely now with global warming:  &#8220;Citizens of the USSR are obliged to protect nature and conserve its riches.&#8221;</p>
<p>Looking this over, and hearing what a certain Presidential candidate is promoting, it makes me wonder if I&#8217;m still in the USA or have been quatum leaped to the USSR pre-1989.</p>
<p>The first needful thing to do would be to determine to which constitution one is patriotic.</p>
<p>Of course they also had &#8220;Marriage is based on the free consent of the woman and the man&#8221; so they weren&#8217;t completely off-base! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I love how our Constitution does not demand patriotism, dutiful behavior, and obligations, unlike the old USSR.  A truly free people has the right to chose how they will demonstrate their patriotism or not demonstrate it.  (To wear the pin or not to wear the pin, that is the question)</p>
<p>A comparative read between the constitutions  of the USA and the USSR is an enlightening one.  Check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: beth</title>
		<link>http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/patriotic-expression-and-visionary-cheerleading/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beauspeaks.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t be the first time I&#039;ve been called a bully. :)

As for relativism making us timid, I&#039;ve seen that the thought process appears to go like this:
-There isn&#039;t an absolute truth
-Thus &quot;my truth&quot; isn&#039;t necessarily true for other people
-I should not inflict &quot;my truth&quot; on others, since their truth is just as valid
-I will keep my opinions to myself or water them down to the point that they&#039;re useless lest I offend by indicating that someone else&#039;s truth is not, in fact, true.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a local to the US problem - in fact, I&#039;d say it&#039;s much more advanced as an issue in Europe (look at countries like Sweden - I think it&#039;s Sweden - where euthanasia is not only practiced routinely but not even blinked at and in fact is seen as something that&#039;s done for the good of the culture overall to &quot;reduce the drain on resources&quot; -- and that&#039;s just one example in a host of others).

Regardless, I think the problem is now at the point where the media has set a precedent that anyone who stands for truth (real, Biblical truth) can be skewered with impunity - with the simple label of &quot;intolerant&quot;. And this makes the majority of us even more timid. The fact that tolerance as religion has been snapped up by schools and, to a large degree, the church, isn&#039;t helping. So now, even those who might have stood up and been heard if they&#039;d noticed what was going on before now have been cowed and so we teeter on the edge of finding that we&#039;re not able to express Truth at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t be the first time I&#8217;ve been called a bully. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for relativism making us timid, I&#8217;ve seen that the thought process appears to go like this:<br />
-There isn&#8217;t an absolute truth<br />
-Thus &#8220;my truth&#8221; isn&#8217;t necessarily true for other people<br />
-I should not inflict &#8220;my truth&#8221; on others, since their truth is just as valid<br />
-I will keep my opinions to myself or water them down to the point that they&#8217;re useless lest I offend by indicating that someone else&#8217;s truth is not, in fact, true.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a local to the US problem &#8211; in fact, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s much more advanced as an issue in Europe (look at countries like Sweden &#8211; I think it&#8217;s Sweden &#8211; where euthanasia is not only practiced routinely but not even blinked at and in fact is seen as something that&#8217;s done for the good of the culture overall to &#8220;reduce the drain on resources&#8221; &#8212; and that&#8217;s just one example in a host of others).</p>
<p>Regardless, I think the problem is now at the point where the media has set a precedent that anyone who stands for truth (real, Biblical truth) can be skewered with impunity &#8211; with the simple label of &#8220;intolerant&#8221;. And this makes the majority of us even more timid. The fact that tolerance as religion has been snapped up by schools and, to a large degree, the church, isn&#8217;t helping. So now, even those who might have stood up and been heard if they&#8217;d noticed what was going on before now have been cowed and so we teeter on the edge of finding that we&#8217;re not able to express Truth at all.</p>
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